Utopian Reformist

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Posts by Utopian Reformist

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  14

  How Many "Householders" Did You Bring...

  by teenyuck in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just curious...after a long discussion with my mother on her 34 year career as a faithful jw, i asked her how many people she brought in, not counting my sister, myself, my father?

  4 in 34 years.

  since i started going door to door at age 5 until age 18, i never had a bible study with anyone.

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  Utopian Reformist

  Today, there are three elders and two publishers who succumbed to my charismatic witchpower wizardry!
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  11

  Daily text - Isa. 25:8

  by YoYoMama in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  isa.

  25:8 "[god] will actually swallow up death forever, ... for jehovah himself has spoken it.".

  commentary:.

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  Utopian Reformist

  Religion must offer a reward for obedience and sacrifice. If not, it's followers soon dwindle. The resurrection is a very powerful stimuli to faith and it carried Judaism forward for thousands of years.

  While I am still researching certain topics and matters of life and death, I am not offended by YOYOMAMA's posts and public witnessing. This forum exists because JW's & WTBS exist.

  While the majority of JW propaganda is orwellian and immature, certain aspects are still worthy of investigation and discussion. This YOYOMAMA is providing the catalyst. He will be surprised at the results, but if he is honest, he will enjoy the experience.

  Let him "Advertise, advertise, advertise!".
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  51

  Cannot understand without the organisation

  by ozziepost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just in case any lurkers here may be in doubt about the criticisms made of the witnesses' idolizing of an organisation, here is a selection of their claims, in their own words:.

  "he [god] does not impart his holy spirit and an understanding and appreciation of his word apart from his visible organisation.

  " (the watchtower, july 1, 1965, page 391).

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  Utopian Reformist

  In addition Bobby:

  I was not enlightened by Ray Franz. Over the years I began assembling a sub-conscious collection of information, starting from my earliest days as an "approved associate" to the time I pioneered.

  One of the first books I remember reading was trite, vitriolic and bitter. It was David Reed's "How to rescue a loved one from the Watchtower". I finished a few of his early books and pamphlets back then because I needed reassurance that I was not forsaking family traditions for insanity.

  Since his early works were accusatory and personal, I dismissed his findings. I also read many other "approved" works by Marley Cole and MacMillan, etc, etc. My investigations began almost immediately and continued for years.

  I am neither impressed nor surprised at the amount of good or evil a man or many men can perform in this life. Following humans is not included in my genetic code, despite tampering.

  Can you say the same?
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  51

  Cannot understand without the organisation

  by ozziepost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just in case any lurkers here may be in doubt about the criticisms made of the witnesses' idolizing of an organisation, here is a selection of their claims, in their own words:.

  "he [god] does not impart his holy spirit and an understanding and appreciation of his word apart from his visible organisation.

  " (the watchtower, july 1, 1965, page 391).

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  Utopian Reformist

  To Bobby (You Know):

  Despite your interlinear attempts at antagonizing me, I refuse to indulge your craving. However, I am going to continue to disagree with you wherever you substitute "witchhunting, scapegoating, mudslinging" for simple and honest truth, reason, logic and facts.

  I do not worship the other creatures at this or any other forum. The only collective effort found herein is a unilateral conformity to oppose manmade interpretations, legislation and traditions disguised as a modern-day "vox-senatus, vox-deus".

  It's simply not tolerated as acceptable. I am not concerned with the personal affairs of other humans, nor does it affect the exercising of any personal faith I own. I do not consider myself "theologically" enlightened, nor "spiritually" enlightened" any longer. I once did, as a pioneer, and I was obviously mistaken.

  The habitual repetition of scripted dogma, minus scientific and historical evidence is debilitating and stigmatizing. The guilt based peer pressure to publicize and advertise paranoia and fear does not induce love, but promotes competition, and low self-esteem resulting in chronical depression. Just look at your pioneers and older ones and then the miserable children.

  It does not require a "PhD" in psychiatry/psychology or sociology to notice the long-term effects of cult-like group dynamics and self-denial.

  No, I am not enlightened Robert. If the light that shines in you is really darkness, then how great that darkness is.....

  I am not enlightened, but I am a free man. I am ashamed of the tone in your responses and the direction you are pursuing. Obviously, the depth and pressure is affecting you to some degree. RELAX, it's only life!

  I am worried about you, since I was under the impression your true motivation is to impart understanding, engage in productive dialogue and assemble facts and material before arriving at conclusions. Lately, you have been rather hasty and tempermental and presumptuous.

  How unusual for a joyful, happy servant? Again...RELAX!

  Now, we are not disciples of men, but prisoners of our own thoughts and slaves to time. No one is excluded, not even you.

  The FDS docrtrine is on very shaky ground. Financially, there are problems and the youth are disappearing. Scandals and expositories concerning the inner circles in the GB & various committees only prove that organizationally, the WTBS is not much different than a business.

  It is a hard and difficult task to face, when americans have tried so many times in history to blend religion and business, like AMWAY, or the PTL or the 700 Club, the Masons, and now the WTBS is falling in line in the same categories.

  You will face some crucial decisions, my friend. Attacking and accusing us will not masquerade your bitterness, anger and final disappointment. We feel for you and hope for the best!
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  51

  Cannot understand without the organisation

  by ozziepost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just in case any lurkers here may be in doubt about the criticisms made of the witnesses' idolizing of an organisation, here is a selection of their claims, in their own words:.

  "he [god] does not impart his holy spirit and an understanding and appreciation of his word apart from his visible organisation.

  " (the watchtower, july 1, 1965, page 391).

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  Utopian Reformist

  Furthermore, Bobby:

  When you respond with "whatever, I don't follow that trivia" you reveal your soft underbelly (quoting Churchill) and make hasty retreat with irrelevant quips.

  As far as Ray Franz is concerned, his "name" is frequently used here and other places due to the vocal popularity of his story. He is no one's idol. If any have in fact begun worshipping him, then they have become slaves again, of another sort.

  Humans love humans, whom they can see, feel, touch, understand and relate to in their own terms. Unfortunately, this translates to creature worship of sports figures, movie starts and musicians.

  However, those who strive to maintain free thought and a belief in a "vis maior" do not succumb to emotionalism. Rather, we labor for further insight, not for new leaders.

  As Titus once said; "Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam!"

  You presume to extremity!
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  51

  Cannot understand without the organisation

  by ozziepost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just in case any lurkers here may be in doubt about the criticisms made of the witnesses' idolizing of an organisation, here is a selection of their claims, in their own words:.

  "he [god] does not impart his holy spirit and an understanding and appreciation of his word apart from his visible organisation.

  " (the watchtower, july 1, 1965, page 391).

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  Utopian Reformist

  Bobby: Are you out of your mind? Come on, now, for any sake at all, be reasonable. You have the audacity to call me a BOZO, and you deny that "certain men" in the upper echelons of theocracy are given undue attention?

  Why is it that "certain men" have appointed assistants, and certain men are provided with vehicles and certain men NEVER engage in door-to-door work? Why is it certain men are assigned to deliver special information at conventions and assemblies? Why is it certain men manage the finances, secretly?

  There is plently of old fashioned "good-ole-boy" networking going on in the WTBS, as with any human organization run by predominantly WHITE, ANGLO-SAXON MALES! Such is MORMON-DOM and CHRISTENDOM, and of course JW-DOM!

  Privileges are something all "important" men indulge in and justify the excesses and liberties others have labored to provide through sacrifice.

  You ought to be ashamed to defend this aristocracy!
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  51

  Cannot understand without the organisation

  by ozziepost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just in case any lurkers here may be in doubt about the criticisms made of the witnesses' idolizing of an organisation, here is a selection of their claims, in their own words:.

  "he [god] does not impart his holy spirit and an understanding and appreciation of his word apart from his visible organisation.

  " (the watchtower, july 1, 1965, page 391).

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  Utopian Reformist

  To You Know:

  Russell was idolized by his followers, as was the case with many WTBS figures. You well know, that many so-called "great speakers" are admired and bestowed with attention at meetings, assemblies and conventions.

  Fred Franz was said to be able to speak, read and write seven langauages fluently, and was proven to be an academic farce. He was touted as fluent in greek and hebrew and was not conversational in either, nor demonstrated any completed credentials as such.

  Rutherford, displayed in old WTBS photographs with captions like "the judge oversees HIS flock" and the "great leader and defender" and many other FOOLISH and PATHETIC titles for an alcoholic, secular failure, with delusions of grandeur.

  Ray Franz wrote two truthful accounts of his life with the WTBS. Simple. Now, the WTBS has taken many adversaries to court in the past. Why wasn't Ray silenced? Better yet, since Ray is after human adoration and attention, why hasn't he started a church? Where is Ray's web-site? Where is his monthly newsletter? When was he last interviewed by mainstream media?

  Why doesn't he post here or anywhere else ont he web? He is just one simple man telling his story, as anyone has the right to do, in peace in this country. Eventually, many more will do the same, including myself.

  We don't need attention or admiration. Just as consumer advocates expose commercial fraud and manufacturing defects, WTBS activists expose the truth about the truth.

  Now, whether or not divine intervention will occur in the future and rectify matters is another question. But, spiritually appointed authority, as a class of men overseeing the faith of others with new oral and written traditions is definitely out of the question.

  Who in the world are you kidding?
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  38

  Are we in Jesus's Reign?

  by ballistic in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry, to ask a basic question.

  (and i have been accused of requiring spiritual milk in an email),.

  but i just want to get this straight:.

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  Utopian Reformist

  To Bobby (You Know):

  Perhaps, the watchtower quotes posted at the beginning of this thread state much more than the obvious. As a staunch supporter, you believe and endorse that christian faith is only valid if it begins with "appointed human authority" thru an organization, and the WTBS is such an entity.

  Ask yourself, did Jesus make BOLD and FREQUENT statements asserting his divinely supported authority? Did Jesus establish a continued pattern of "announcing" his authority and consistently reminding everyone PUBLICLY of his authority?

  Rather, on many occasions, Jesus refused to answer such questions. His authority became evident through the content of his teachings and examples from his conduct. This produced respect and admiration, followed by loyalty and love. It did not require a CONSTANT affirmation of "authoritative reminders" to establish his credentials.

  His miracles, teachings and conduct accomplished all that was necessary, without making audacious declarations. Thus, it was IMPOSSIBLE to prove him blasphemous under the law.

  I won't even bother boring you with the scriptural accounts, they should already be memorized in your head!

  Think about it!
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  11

  HELP on Bethelite injured

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone know of situations where bethelites were injured on the job and asked to leave bethel, with no help and no finances offered, even if he is married and wife worked there as well?.

  any cases where a court of law forced the wt to pay out in a case like this?

  if so, email me at [email protected].

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  Utopian Reformist

  FRED HALL:

  You try to garner sympathy in the chat room from women, because "everyone picks on you" and here you go and instigate hostilities when someone asks a simple question.

  So now Randy was falling in toilets at Bethel, meanwhile what were you doing? Opening the doors for certain overseers? Following the PO around in the hall and offering to do every little task?

  And let me guess, at night you WERE NOT browsing pornography on the web and flirting in chat rooms and fantasizing about certain sisters in your hall, right?

  Over 2000 posts and all of them could fit into one-one millionth of an atom. You're disgraceful and pathetic.

  Now, go ahead and fill out your service report and don't forget to count your posts!
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  13

  Yet Another New Member

  by BadAssociation in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am yet another new member to the group because, surprise surprise, being a jw makes me miserable.

  i have been raised in the "truth" and have been hating it for a very long time.

  the congregation that i attend is a snake pit, full of judgemental, brain-washed witnesses who will report your every move.

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  Utopian Reformist

  WELCOME ABOARD!